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So, TotalSciFi apparently thinks they have a list of the most important women in sci-fi TV and movies.

I'm sure Ellen Ripley is very cool, and in what little bits I've seen of her I've been impressed, but... really? Number one "most important woman of sci-fi?" And... they must be joking, putting Rose Tyler at #7, above the likes of... well, everyone else on the list? Look, I know I'm biased by, y'know, not being overly fond of the Rose/Ten relationship, but... seriously? Number seven of the most important women in sci-fi? o_O

Particularly not since, through some bizarre lack of intelligence on behalf of whoever wrote this list Susan Ivanova is all the way down at #18. And no Zoe Washburn anywhere? I am gravely insulted by this.

Also, listing it as "the 25 women who shook sci-fi"... implies that they might have done something different or changed the genre somehow. Which I don't particularly think a lot of these did. At all.

Here - have the list.

But you know what I find the most upsetting out of this whole thing?

17) MIKAELA BANES (Megan Fox, Transformers)

I sure as hell hope that's someone who didn't make it into the movie. Please? Please, someone tell me it wasn't Shia LeBouef's girlfriend? Please? Because if it was, and she made it in as somehow, bizarrely, cooler than Ivanova, I may just weep for the future of the genre.

So, folks - who is the list missing? Who do you think definitely has to be on there? And who's your pick for #1 most ground-breaking or earth-shaking female character in sci-fi?

Cross-posted to my own journal - apologies to people on both!
Current Mood:
amused amused
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On June 3rd, 2009 03:07 am (UTC), cyranocyrano commented:
Okay, I finally twigged that it's "Badd Asss(tm) women in SciFi" and not "Important/Cool Women in Science Fiction" which stopped me from looking for folks like D.C. Fontana and Octavia Butler.

And I confess that, even being installed as a leather-clad treat for dads, I think that Leela should definitely have made the list as Badd Asss and also, as a woman on TV in the seventies not waiting to be rescued by the male protagonist, pretty damned ground breaking.
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On June 3rd, 2009 03:16 am (UTC), rivendellrose replied:
Interestingly, even though I09 says it's "bad-ass women," Total Sci Fi itself only says "the most important." They do say they're only covering TV and movies, though, which forgives them for skipping Fontana, Butler, Duane, Tiptree, Kagan, and a zillion others.

Original site here.

I... have issues with Leela, despite knowing she's one of the most popular companions and even liking her a bit myself, and I haven't quite been able to pin down exactly why I'm not all that fond of her. I think it's the faux-primitive thing, it just... kind of rubs me the wrong way.
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On June 3rd, 2009 03:22 am (UTC), cyranocyrano replied:
Oh, now I realize that it's SyFy. That explains how LeeLoo, who pretty much spends the movie as a MacGuffin, made the list. Because they baste their heads with crack before putting them in the oven.
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On June 3rd, 2009 03:25 am (UTC), rivendellrose replied:
Do they? That would explain a lot here...

I don't know a darned thing about them, to be honest. I kind of fell out of the major sci-fi websites pretty much the minute I discovered LJ and the whole concept of sci-fi communities that... you know... actually have something interesting to say. :P
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On June 3rd, 2009 03:28 am (UTC), cyranocyrano replied:
I was thinking more of the cable television channel with a website associated with it. The folks who did BattleStar Galactica and Mansquito and Boa vs. Anaconda I-III.
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On June 3rd, 2009 03:29 am (UTC), rivendellrose replied:
Ahhhhh, okay. I get it. Sorry, brain kind of not working... long day. :D
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On June 3rd, 2009 03:30 am (UTC), cyranocyrano replied:
Yeah, apparently mine either. Because it's not them. I'm completely wrong, at least about the sponsors of the list.
I need to stop reading anything or speaking to people and maybe just get my woobie and go to bed before I look more like an idiot than I am now.
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On June 3rd, 2009 03:35 am (UTC), rivendellrose replied:
Bah, don't worry. It's evening, it's the internet... we're allowed to be like this. :)
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On June 3rd, 2009 03:38 am (UTC), cyranocyrano replied:
*hugs* I knew there was a reason I liked you. (:
I wonder if Barbarella should have been included on that list...
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On June 3rd, 2009 04:46 am (UTC), bluerosefairy commented:
I weep for the fact that Rose freaking Tyler is #7 and Zoe Washburn, Aeryn Sun, Kira Nerys, Marion Ravenwood, and Leela didn't even make the list.
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On June 3rd, 2009 04:49 am (UTC), rivendellrose replied:
Damn straight - I hadn't even thought of Kira (my childhood heroine - how could I forget?)! And Marion! ♥ I haven't seen Farscape yet, but I've definitely heard enough of Aeryn Sun to think she deserves to be on, and Leela, while not my favorite Doctor Who companion, definitely would fit in there as well.
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On June 3rd, 2009 04:57 am (UTC), bluerosefairy replied:
I'd throw B'Elanna Torres on there too - mainly because while I adore Kira to pieces, Torres was my childhood Trekgirl action heroine. I mean, c'mon, her bat'leth fight in "Day of Honor"? Made of awesome.

I've only seen Peacekeeper Wars, but Aeryn's PREGNANT throughout that movie and still manages to kick more ass than anyone. She is beyond cool.

I agree with your abovementioned points about Leela. She's problematic, no doubt about it. There are other companions that I like better (Ace! SJS! Nyssa and Tegan!). But she definitely kicked ass, and she was one of the first companions with agency in the physical sense.

Also, ACE. ACE ACE ACE. Kills Daleks with rocket launchers and baseball bats and could kick Rose's ass blindfolded and with both hands tied.
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On June 3rd, 2009 05:02 am (UTC), rivendellrose replied:
Ace! Yes!! ♥ There's just so much to love about Ace, but seriously - kills Daleks with a baseball bat. What more can you say? She's so awesome!

B'Elanna was definitely kickass, I agree. Jadzia, too, before I forget to add her. And Nyssa and Tegan - two characters I am not overly fond of on their own, but together? Absolute win. How often do we actually get to see women being friends in sci-fi? They were so fun together.
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On June 3rd, 2009 05:22 am (UTC), bluerosefairy replied:
I adore Ace. It's really all carla_scribbles's fault, as I was poking about Classic Who and was all "why do you heart Ace so much?". She sent me "Ghost Light" and "Survival", and well, that was that.

Jadzia! Absolutely. Went and married herself a Klingon!

Nyssa and Tegan (along with Five and Adric) are totally my Team TARDIS. They're competant and funny and vulnerable and smart and they're friends! You so, so rarely get to see women being friends!
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On June 3rd, 2009 05:32 am (UTC), rivendellrose replied:
Awww, "Survival" was my first Ace serial, and "Ghost Light" my second. ♥ "Battlefield" is my other favorite. So weird, all of them, but so good!

Not to mention bossed Sisko around precisely whenever she felt like it. ;)

They really are. And yes! I wish New!Who would have more of women together... or, really, any multi-companion situations that aren't the Super Special End of Season smash-ups, honestly. It was great seeing Donna and Martha meet this past season (even if the episodes themselves were a bit... er... different), but we certainly don't get enough of it.
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On June 5th, 2009 02:47 pm (UTC), bluerosefairy replied:
Heeeee. I have yet to see "Battlefield", but BRIG. There is nothing that the Brig cannot make better.

Oh, she did. She totally did. And she was his bro! I mean, I kindasorta ship Jadzia/Sisko, but she was his bro first and foremost. They went drinking together!

I was so, so disappointed that we don't get more multi-companion situations with the women bonding. I mean, "Turn Left" was actually quite good in terms of making me not hate Rose and giving her and Donna things to do other than compare notes on the Doctor. But I was so disappointed that "The Doctor's Daughter" - with THREE women in it - barely, barely passes the Bechdel Test.
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On June 5th, 2009 08:46 pm (UTC), rivendellrose replied:
Oh, you have to see Battlefield - it has Brigadier Winifred Bambera, who is stunningly kickass and awesome. And Ace may or may not be the destined King of England, depending on how you read one scene. And, of course with Ace, there is slashiness with a pretty girl. Because it wouldn't be a proper Ace episode if she wasn't hitting on a pretty girl for at least half the episode. ♥

I think Sisko's head would have exploded if anything every happened between them - I mean, it's clear from... "Fascination," was it? that she has a little bit of a crush on him, but... I'm not sure I can see Sisko getting over their past to let anything happen. She's totally his bro, though. And they are so cute together.

Oh, god, "The Doctor's Daughter." I wanted to like it. I really did. I mean, Martha and Donna! And Georgia Moffat was sort of absurdly adorable. But... the whole thing really felt like the writers looking at each other and saying "gee, after making her pretend to be a servant girl in 1912 for a year and then forcing her to walk around the world while the Master destroyed the Earth, I don't feel like we've quite put Martha through enough crap yet, do you? Let's kidnap her, separate her from the Doctor, throw her in a lot of mud, and kill people around her! That'll be fun!" And that after the whole thing with the Martha clone. Can't anything good ever happen to Martha Jones, other than her getting randomly engaged to a guy she fell in love with in an alternate universe but who she's barely met here?

....Ahem. Forgive the rant, please. It's a hot-button thing for me, obviously... I ♥ Martha Jones, and the series is just so mean to her. :(
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On June 7th, 2009 05:13 am (UTC), bluerosefairy replied:
I have heard how very awesome Bambera is. I am looking forward to getting my hands on the ep and seeing for myself. *kicks currently-broken laptop*

And no, it's definitely not a proper Ace episode if she isn't having obvious lesbian subtext with every female in the vicinity. I saw "Survival", and when I wasn't falling head over heels in love with Anthony Ainley, I was going all "o_O . . . wow, Rona Munro, you're not even TRYING for the 'sub' in 'subtext', are you?".

Hahaha, it would have. He'd be making the most disturbed little "whatthehell?" face if she made a move, which makes my inner shipper sadface, but she's firmly in the "bro" catagory for him.

I completely understand your reaction to "The Doctor's Daughter". I like Georgia Moffet - she's perky and cute and sassy without being irritating, and she even managed to pull off the cliched "Hi, Dad" moment. And I really, really liked Donna shoving Jenny and the Doctor into a working relationship, and figuring out the numbers on the walls. But oh, poor Martha. I really just want to buy Martha a very large martini, give her a hug, and tell her "honey, you do not need the sodding Doctor for ANYTHING. You are fabulous and have an awesome job and owe him precisely jack shit."

Oh, no, rant away! Martha needs more love!
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On June 8th, 2009 01:48 am (UTC), rivendellrose replied:
You've seen "Ghostlight," right? With the falling onto bed with the cute Victorian girlfriend-of-the-week? That was my 2nd Ace episode, and the first where I had to give up any notion at all that the writers were doing the 'subtext' thing with Ace on accident. I don't think it's possible to have that much lesbian subtext on accident. Not that I'm complaining at all, mind you. It just makes Ace that much more one of my favorite companions. ♥

Also, oh, Anthony Ainley. Surpassed in awesome-Masterly-ness only by Roger Delgado, IMHO. Simm was fun, but for sheer sexy he's got nothing on his predecessors. Minus Eric Roberts, that is... he was just kind of creepy.

Martha really does just need sort of the girl's night out treatment - you know, the one you give girl-friends when they go through the break-up from Hell. Lots of drinking, lots of dancing, and a whooooole lot of hugging and being assured that she doesn't need that jackass anyway. I kept hoping she and Tosh and Gwen would get to be buddies when she was on Torchwood, and we sort of got a little of it, but not nearly enough.

Also, I hope you don't mind if I friend you? No obligation to friend back, but if it's okay I might also send a link to your journal to my best friend, who's leaving this week to teach English in Taipei? I think it might do her mind good to read the stuff you're saying about teaching, even if she's going to be in a totally different country. :)

Edited at 2009-06-08 01:56 am (UTC)
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On June 8th, 2009 03:32 am (UTC), bluerosefairy replied:
I have NOT seen "Ghostlight". It's on the list, with "Battlefield". I adore Ace to pieces, because she is totally the cutest babydyke ever, and as we've mentioned - BASEBALL BAT.

I love Delgado, don't get me wrong, but Ainley was my first Master. As soon as I heard the casting spoiler for Simm, I went to my best friend (who's an OldSkool fanboy) and was "I'm gonna like this Master guy, aren't I?". He sat me down with "Keeper of Traken", "Mark of the Rani" and "Claws of Axos", and yeah, Ainley's my Master the way Chris Eccleston (and now Peter Davison) is my Doctor.

Yes yes yes. So much yes. I wanted to have Martha and Tosh kicking ass With Science, and Gwen and Martha doing girly bonding over how much of a prat Jack is, and we didn't get enough of it.

Friend away! And no problem at all sending your friend my way - we foreigners in Asia need to stick together. She's welcome to message me anytime if she's got questions. I know if I hadn't had recrudescence to bother with my "ohgod what if I get lost? What if a kid hits me? What if I can't teach?" freakouts, I'd have been a wreck.

Also, I swear we were friends way back in the Firefly days - your username is very familiar. I had no idea you were into Who. I was going to friend you soon, and you just happened to ask first. :P
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On June 8th, 2009 04:32 am (UTC), rivendellrose replied:
Oh, god, you MUST. It's insane. I mean, really, truly, insane. Like... 80s Doctor Who does "Rocky Horror Picture Show" on acid insane. And the Doctor messes with Ace's head and she goes on about her first girlfriend this old friend of hers from Perivale, and she totally has it off with this adorably creepy Victorian girl, and it's weird. But really cool, in a crazy OldSkool kind of way.

Poor Tosh. She only has that one girlfriend in S1, and then it's like all she can ever do is have awkward interactions with Gwen, all of which seem somehow to boil down to Tosh having a crush on Owen and Gwen knowing it and feeling guilty because she had him first and now he doesn't want Tosh. It's all very disheartening. I'd hoped, when I first saw "Something Borrowed," that they'd be able to bond (because Tosh was so obviously wanting to be Gwen's friend in that episode), but Gwen just gave her that tired line about how Owen would come around, and it was quite sad for poor Tosh. Jack obviously needs to come around and realize that, hello, he can kiss people back to life, and pull her out of the morgue and bring her back, because the show is going to get real tired really fast with only Gwen and Ianto and Jack around, I think.

Also, I swear we were friends way back in the Firefly days

Okay, I'm really glad you're having that feeling, too, because I kind of kept eyeballing your username going "waiiiiiit...." So yes! Awesomeness. :D
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On June 3rd, 2009 05:41 am (UTC), bri_himself replied:
Argh! I can't believe I didn't notice the lack of Aeryn Sun. And she's, like, upper-echelon SF badass - she really should be up there with the Scullys and Ripleys and Sam Carters. Although I suppose it's sort of ironic for a show full of puppets that her place is filled with a goddamn marionette.

Rose freaking Tyler

Argh. I guess they felt they had to include a 'Doctor Who' companion or be booed mercilessly, and she was the most popular? I dunno. I can think of at least ten more empowering companions just off the top of my head.
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On June 5th, 2009 02:42 pm (UTC), bluerosefairy replied:
I KNOW. Like I mentioned to rivendellrose, I haven't seen a ton of Farscape, but Aeryn Sun is BADASS INCARNATE. I really cannot fathom how you can leave her off a list supposedly celebrating Badass Women in Sci-Fi.

I could rattle off nearly every Companion from the past thirty years, and they're guaranteed to be more badass than Rose. Peri Brown was more badass than Rose. I am not exaggerating - that is the point to which I have been driven by the constant Rose worship. Peri was one of the worst of the screamers and had a terrible accent (for which Nicola Bryant is to be applauded for even making the attempt to maintain), but she stood up to the monsters, shouted down the Master, stayed with Six even after "The Twin Dilemma", and became a warrior queen. All of the inexperience, none of the clingy.

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On June 5th, 2009 08:47 pm (UTC), rivendellrose replied:
Popularity does seem to be the key there, since the other they included was Sarah Jane. Not that I don't love Sarah, don't get me wrong, but... *Sigh*
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On June 3rd, 2009 07:54 pm (UTC), therru commented:
Any such list that fails to have Aeryn Sun and River Tam on it will also fail to get my approval.

Edited at 2009-06-03 07:58 pm (UTC)
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On June 5th, 2009 08:47 pm (UTC), rivendellrose replied:
Damn straight!
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